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And with regard to the potential existence of a loving man who enjoys pushing his woman around: you are just plain wrong. You are theoretically wrong, because you are committing the logical fallacy of excluding the middle ground; and you are empirically wrong, because some of us have had relationships like that, and they work well. See Eric's post and Tevemer's, too.

And I once had a boyfriend who was a black belt when I was learning karate, and we spent maybe 15 hours a week practicing - which involved not just pushing, but punching, kicking, sparring, throwing on the ground, and etc. I felt much safer with him than I would have felt with a man who was not a trained martial artist; because he was very aware of the risks and how to ensure safety. But he certainly did enjoy getting physical with me, and I enjoyed it as well. Often it ended in some rough-and-tumble sex. Strangely, though, it never really got into the realm of dominance and submission. He once hinted at spanking, and another time dangled a pair of handcuffs at me provocatively; both times I giggled at him, because I thought all that stuff was silly, and that was the end of it. (It's just as well, probably, because while I loved him a lot, he was not really the right man for me.)

You are mistaken in insisting that there are no wonderful, loving men who would enjoy pushing a woman around and wrestling her into submission. It's the same kind of mistake as the "virgin/whore" division that many men seem to want to make among women. There, the idea is that if you respect a woman you shouldn't have sex with her (and she would not enjoy it); and if she does enjoy having sex, then she doesn't deserve respect. It would be hard to find a misconception more antagonistic to a healthy romantic relationship. Women want to be both loved and respected, and also made love to.

And your misconception - that a man will either love and respect a woman or enjoy physically dominating her, but never both - is along the same lines. Such an idea would undermine any hope of finding true love in a marriage that includes forceful male domination. (Which, for me, is equivalent to the entire sexual aspect of the relationship. If a man did not enjoy getting rough and forceful with me, I would not have much desire for him.) Women who admire and desire physically forceful men also want, need, and deserve to have loving romantic relationships, too. And such marriages can and do work.

by DeeMarie on 2004 Dec 25 - 00:07 | reply to this comment

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